they are some of the worlds strongest men who have been training for 20 years + eating insane amounts of quality foods for a lifetime. I dont think a newbie will achieve the same effects...and natural?

and also i dont think standing cable curls is stength training - pudzain does some bodybuilding style exercises too.

Yes but his main training aim for twenty years was strength training. How you look depends on diet and cardio.
Poundage progression in good form is the key to getting bigger. Beginners should focus on the big compound exercises and getting stronger in those.
Small isolation exercises have no place in a beginners routine. Basic simple compound lifts.
Even more so the case with naturals with limited recovery ability.

yeh suppose so.

ok so update time as its almost a year since I first started training. My biggest achievement and now favourite exercise is squats. Ive taken my piddly legs from 19.5" to 22.5" and more importantly the weight has finally gone up from genuinely struggling on 50kg to 105kg. I know its not monster weight but I am soooo chuffed. oh and before you ask im not doing quarter squats so yeah any fellow skinny people reading this, DO YOUR LEGS its soo worth it

my calves are stiill tiny at just under 14" but they will grow.

What is still sh"t is my bench as my 1 rep max is 75kg JEEEZ poor. I even stepped my reps down over 2 months from 8 to 6 to 4 to shock the system pushing eye poppingly hard. Now im out of ideas so ive jumped to the other end of the scale to 12 reps as of last week which made me almost throw up lol.
Any ho im not complaining as it would be boring if it came easy just wondered what im doing wrong as everything else has increased. I do 20kg weighted dips, wide grip chin ups are almost ready for weight and legs are coming on nicely just not my bl""dy chest grrr

I am game to try anything, contemplating focusing more on my lats as my lower back has got much thicker but I havent done a lot on my lats?! heard the back plays a role in bench or is this not correct?

ALso contemplating doing the clean and jerk just to mix things up and shock the body

any ho enough rambling from me, please help

Hi Mate,

I was looking back at pictures of me a year ago (after realising none of my smmer shirts from last year are anywhere enar fitting me!) and my chest has changed a hell of a lot. Chest routine I'm currently on (which is working for me - I'm a very hard gainer) is:

Flat dumbell press 12, 10, 8, 6 reps increasing by 5kg
Incline as above
Decline as above
Dumbell flyes (alternate each workout between flat, incline and decline to worl all the chest)

I change this around by substituting an exercise with heavy dips (leaning forward) every 8 weeks or so. I'm only using dumbells cos I work out at home and have no spotter.

I'm not saying this is a perfect routine - there are far more experienced guys than me on here- but it has definitely made a huge difference to my chest.

Good luck.